Multimedia
Oct 13, 07:24 AM
I have the nVidia 7800GT card in both my G5 quads. It and the Quadro FX4000 were Apple's first offerings with 2xdual-link ports that I'm aware of. They went to the ATI X1900XT with the Mac Pro and replaced the the FX4000 with the FX4500 sometime last spring. Anyway, I think all the G5 quads are PCI-E x16 capable so you should be able to drop in any Mac EFI compliant PCI-E video card that has the dual-link connectors, but I'm not positive on this. The x1900xt sops up an adjacent card slot, which isn't an issue on the Mac Pro, but could cause problems on a G5 depending on what you may have installed. But I'm willing to bet that the current 7300GT card for $149 (1x dual-link, 1x single-link) will work just fine. I'm sure someone knows for sure.
And yeah, I will buy the Mac pro with the x1900xt unless something better comes along before I click the buy button.According to Apple none of the Mac Pro cards work in the Quad G5s and vice versa. Read rumor ATI is developing a 2xDual Link PCIe retail card that will work in Quads but haven't seen anything to reveal when it will finally ship. I guess that's a topic for discussion with ATI at MacWorld Expo.
And yeah, I will buy the Mac pro with the x1900xt unless something better comes along before I click the buy button.According to Apple none of the Mac Pro cards work in the Quad G5s and vice versa. Read rumor ATI is developing a 2xDual Link PCIe retail card that will work in Quads but haven't seen anything to reveal when it will finally ship. I guess that's a topic for discussion with ATI at MacWorld Expo.
Apple OC
Apr 23, 05:42 PM
exactly ^^^ you either believe or you don't
Red-red
Apr 9, 07:57 PM
And it still won't work.
Can't you understand?
You can't look at a screen and hold a controller to play a game well, when there is nothing for your fingers to feel on the thing (sheet of smooth glass) you are holding as a controller.
I understand completely the limitations of the approach but you're the one who doesn't understand or more precisely doesn't seem to accept the possibilities.
Apple isn't going to release a controller or a controller add on. Get that into your head. It isn't happening.
I'm not asking you to understand or like the approach just so we're clear. I couldn't care less but that is what they're doing. No two ways about it.
Brilliant! then a family of five can all play scrabble or monopoly for the low low cost of $1,495*
Apple are all about building integration and eco systems. Their visions of the future of consumer electronics... or post PC devices is iOS. If a family of five buys into that ecosystem they already have iPhone's, they already have iPads, they already have iPods and if they don't... they're probably going to buy one.
If you approach it with a closed mind you won't understand it. You clearly don't which is why you've reeled off the predictable reply about current cost/usage.
Can't you understand?
You can't look at a screen and hold a controller to play a game well, when there is nothing for your fingers to feel on the thing (sheet of smooth glass) you are holding as a controller.
I understand completely the limitations of the approach but you're the one who doesn't understand or more precisely doesn't seem to accept the possibilities.
Apple isn't going to release a controller or a controller add on. Get that into your head. It isn't happening.
I'm not asking you to understand or like the approach just so we're clear. I couldn't care less but that is what they're doing. No two ways about it.
Brilliant! then a family of five can all play scrabble or monopoly for the low low cost of $1,495*
Apple are all about building integration and eco systems. Their visions of the future of consumer electronics... or post PC devices is iOS. If a family of five buys into that ecosystem they already have iPhone's, they already have iPads, they already have iPods and if they don't... they're probably going to buy one.
If you approach it with a closed mind you won't understand it. You clearly don't which is why you've reeled off the predictable reply about current cost/usage.
djgamble
Oct 7, 09:52 PM
Good luck to them then...
I predict Google will be bankrupt by 2012 when the VC's realize they're not achieving anything.
I predict Google will be bankrupt by 2012 when the VC's realize they're not achieving anything.
Multimedia
Oct 27, 12:37 AM
Multimedia, I was wondering if you could address the FSB issue being discussed by a few people here, namely how more and more cores using the same FSB per chip can push only so much data through that 1333 MHZ pipe, thereby making the FSB act as a bottleneck. Any thoughts?No thoughts. Hope for the best.
dgree03
Apr 28, 09:30 AM
Let me try to explain what I mean from a different angle:
The number of PCs being sold could remain constant and still fall behind tablet sales in the future. Why? The market expands. Think about who could use a mainframe back in the day. Very few companies. Then minicomputers came along and suddenly many more companies could get one. The market expanded, and even if mainframe sales remained constant, minicomputer sales surpassed them.
Tablets will appeal to those who never got comfortable with PCs. Or who never bothered getting one at all. I've personally seen toddlers and 80-year-olds gravitate toward the iPad naturally. It just fits them perfectly. There's none of that artificial abstraction of a keyboard or mouse between their fingers and the device, they just interact directly. It appeals to them.
Someone who uses a PC almost exclusively for email and web surfing will find a tablet appealing to them.
Programmers and professional writers used to keyboards will not find a tablet appealing to them. Not yet, at least.
So when the market balloons yet again to take in the Tablet Era, PCs will continue to be sold, but the number of users in this new market will be larger than the market that existed in the PC Era. Many PC users will move to tablets, and many folks who never enjoyed (or even used) PCs will grab a tablet. It will be bigger than the PC market by 2020.
And by the way, the price premium referred to earlier in this thread? That's unique to Macs versus PCs because Apple does not compete in the low-end of the market. But in the smart phone and tablet markets, there is NO price premium. One day people will forget that Apple ever made "high-priced" items since it simply won't be true compared with the competition.
As for Apple never making headway, they are merely the most profitable computer company on the planet. Nice lack of headway if you can get it.
Oh i completely understand what you mean, thanks for the further clarification.
Lets not forget that we are dealing with a more "computer" savvy generation. Your examples of 80yr olds and infants is generally correct, but when those infants get to school, they will be using desktops(at school.) I think the barrier that existed with PC emergence in the late 80's is still prevalent today, not with the youger crowd anyway.
I think it will get to the point where people will have multiple devices in their homes. Just like people have laptops, desktops, and tablets(like myself) They will each have a place, but I just dont think tablets will run desktops and laptops out of peoples homes and time in the next 10-15 years.
The number of PCs being sold could remain constant and still fall behind tablet sales in the future. Why? The market expands. Think about who could use a mainframe back in the day. Very few companies. Then minicomputers came along and suddenly many more companies could get one. The market expanded, and even if mainframe sales remained constant, minicomputer sales surpassed them.
Tablets will appeal to those who never got comfortable with PCs. Or who never bothered getting one at all. I've personally seen toddlers and 80-year-olds gravitate toward the iPad naturally. It just fits them perfectly. There's none of that artificial abstraction of a keyboard or mouse between their fingers and the device, they just interact directly. It appeals to them.
Someone who uses a PC almost exclusively for email and web surfing will find a tablet appealing to them.
Programmers and professional writers used to keyboards will not find a tablet appealing to them. Not yet, at least.
So when the market balloons yet again to take in the Tablet Era, PCs will continue to be sold, but the number of users in this new market will be larger than the market that existed in the PC Era. Many PC users will move to tablets, and many folks who never enjoyed (or even used) PCs will grab a tablet. It will be bigger than the PC market by 2020.
And by the way, the price premium referred to earlier in this thread? That's unique to Macs versus PCs because Apple does not compete in the low-end of the market. But in the smart phone and tablet markets, there is NO price premium. One day people will forget that Apple ever made "high-priced" items since it simply won't be true compared with the competition.
As for Apple never making headway, they are merely the most profitable computer company on the planet. Nice lack of headway if you can get it.
Oh i completely understand what you mean, thanks for the further clarification.
Lets not forget that we are dealing with a more "computer" savvy generation. Your examples of 80yr olds and infants is generally correct, but when those infants get to school, they will be using desktops(at school.) I think the barrier that existed with PC emergence in the late 80's is still prevalent today, not with the youger crowd anyway.
I think it will get to the point where people will have multiple devices in their homes. Just like people have laptops, desktops, and tablets(like myself) They will each have a place, but I just dont think tablets will run desktops and laptops out of peoples homes and time in the next 10-15 years.
Doctor Q
Sep 12, 03:27 PM
Apple may need to take steps to avoid confusing consumers. Their multiple consumer products make it complicated for people who don't know Apple's product line, aren't particuarly technical, aren't sure which are products Mac-only and which are cross platform, and don't know how their hardware, software, and O.S. fit together.
There are plenty of people out there who don't realize iPods are made by Apple, and iTV (whatever it's true name turns out to be) will confuse them further.
There are plenty of people out there who don't realize iPods are made by Apple, and iTV (whatever it's true name turns out to be) will confuse them further.
nixd2001
Oct 9, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Pants
what when the altivec unit gets starved of data?
Im talking from a 'doing' point of view - when a machine i have spent 2.5k wont allow me to use its best feature (with gcc) then i feel cheated.
Is this that you think GCC can never invoke Altivec or that it doesn't know how to optimise from arbitrary code to Altivec?
what when the altivec unit gets starved of data?
Im talking from a 'doing' point of view - when a machine i have spent 2.5k wont allow me to use its best feature (with gcc) then i feel cheated.
Is this that you think GCC can never invoke Altivec or that it doesn't know how to optimise from arbitrary code to Altivec?
mmmcheese
Sep 12, 05:05 PM
I think they did it because iTV doesn't really threaten any existing Apple products, so people aren't likely to hold off buying something while they wait for it. It's still odd behavior from Apple, but I'm not complaining.
The other possible reason. When someone is considering buying a movie and asks "Can I play it on my TV?" Apple can say "yes...well, in a few months when product X is available." This was a big question for Amazon...and their answer was "yes, if you connect your computer to your TV" which is a really ugly answer (for consumers).
The other possible reason. When someone is considering buying a movie and asks "Can I play it on my TV?" Apple can say "yes...well, in a few months when product X is available." This was a big question for Amazon...and their answer was "yes, if you connect your computer to your TV" which is a really ugly answer (for consumers).
The Beatles
Apr 9, 12:49 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
Ahhh. A Gamer. Thanks.;) What you are seeing is called RDF. That field will not be around forever.
Las Vegas: New York-New York
New York-New York Hotel
Free Las Vegas New York New
New York Hotel, Las Vegas,
New York hotel, Las Vegas,
Statue of Liberty, New York
New York Hotel, Statue of
Statue of Liberty New York,
Las Vegas#39;s New York-New
Ahhh. A Gamer. Thanks.;) What you are seeing is called RDF. That field will not be around forever.
Xeperu
Apr 26, 01:15 PM
The deal with religious people is to ignore them if you disagree.
I'm a devout (pun intended) atheist and find the entire notion of a "higher being" absolutely ridiculous.
HOWEVER! I do let religious people practice their religion in peace. An anecdote I tell people goes like this.
I had a friend whose mother was dying of cancer. She prayed to her god and that gave her hope and comfort. SHe believed that her prayers helped her mom and even I didn't try to defy her. It gave her strength and no matter how ridiculous it was, I was happy that it helped her cope.
tl;dr - Practice religion, but don't bother me with it.
I'm a devout (pun intended) atheist and find the entire notion of a "higher being" absolutely ridiculous.
HOWEVER! I do let religious people practice their religion in peace. An anecdote I tell people goes like this.
I had a friend whose mother was dying of cancer. She prayed to her god and that gave her hope and comfort. SHe believed that her prayers helped her mom and even I didn't try to defy her. It gave her strength and no matter how ridiculous it was, I was happy that it helped her cope.
tl;dr - Practice religion, but don't bother me with it.
NebulaClash
Apr 28, 08:47 AM
Oh, let these people have their fun. The market will prove them wrong. Each era begins with such folk who are good at the previous era's technology. They never see the turning points, but they still get swept up in history.
Alaerian
Apr 5, 06:00 PM
Don't read so much into it. Macs are perfectly capable of both copy/paste and Alt-Tab. However, Mac simply uses Command-Tab - Command is in the same place as the Alt key.
Under the Apple menu on the top toolbar, you can access both recently used programs and recently used files, just the same as in the Windows Start menu. It's essentially the same thing, but better.
Under the Apple menu on the top toolbar, you can access both recently used programs and recently used files, just the same as in the Windows Start menu. It's essentially the same thing, but better.
motulist
Sep 12, 03:20 PM
Apple gave a sneak peak of an upcoming product. Is that a flying pig I see out my window?
roland.g
Sep 12, 06:33 PM
That's what I thought when I saw that they weren't specific about WiFi ... simply calling it "802.11 wireless networking" instead of specifically stating it was "802.11 A/B/G".
but that brings up the point of what's sending to it. Doesn't matter that it has new tech to recieve at higher bandwidth if the computer streaming to it only sends out at 802.11g.
but that brings up the point of what's sending to it. Doesn't matter that it has new tech to recieve at higher bandwidth if the computer streaming to it only sends out at 802.11g.
Piggie
Apr 28, 10:53 AM
My child's school is part of the USA "laptop schools" program and every child from 5th grade through graduation is required to have a laptop. The only three they are allowed to choose from (currently) are PCs and cost $1099, $1649, and $2029.
I looked at the specs and all three models are similarly priced as equivalent Mac laptops (actually the $1099 PC laptop is less well equipped than the similar Mac laptop).
We are not allowed to buy them Macs. (It is something that angers me quite a bit, that they require us to buy the equipment but won't let us buy what we want - in my opinion if they want specific equipment, they should buy it - since I am paying the $$$ I should be able to buy what system I want as long as it meets certain requirements).
Actually, I'm note sure about the US, But I would fully agree with stopping Schools etc from buying Mac's for use in education.
The point of a school is to teach/educate/prepare children/students for the skills they are going to need when they leave and enter into the real world, the marketplace for jobs.
Like it or not, PC's are vastly more in use in typical businesses these days.
You do now want a vast amount of people leaving school to start their new jobs, being confronted by PC's and say, oh, we're never used PC's we only used Macs at college.
That's just a non starter of an idea. And getting businesses to dump all their PC's and buy Mac's overnight is just not going to happen. Like it or not.
I also take issue with those who seem to think Anything non Apple is worthless junk, that's just silly talk that belongs in the playground.
I also believe Apple could make a low cost (lost cost for Apple) Plastic cased laptop, perhaps trim the specs down a little and make is much more affordable to a typical family. I don't know why people cannot grasp that many here are not the typical consumer who is struggling to pay bills, feed the family, run the car etc etc.
It's very insulting to brand such a person, who is working hard to bring up a family "Joe Cheapo"
I looked at the specs and all three models are similarly priced as equivalent Mac laptops (actually the $1099 PC laptop is less well equipped than the similar Mac laptop).
We are not allowed to buy them Macs. (It is something that angers me quite a bit, that they require us to buy the equipment but won't let us buy what we want - in my opinion if they want specific equipment, they should buy it - since I am paying the $$$ I should be able to buy what system I want as long as it meets certain requirements).
Actually, I'm note sure about the US, But I would fully agree with stopping Schools etc from buying Mac's for use in education.
The point of a school is to teach/educate/prepare children/students for the skills they are going to need when they leave and enter into the real world, the marketplace for jobs.
Like it or not, PC's are vastly more in use in typical businesses these days.
You do now want a vast amount of people leaving school to start their new jobs, being confronted by PC's and say, oh, we're never used PC's we only used Macs at college.
That's just a non starter of an idea. And getting businesses to dump all their PC's and buy Mac's overnight is just not going to happen. Like it or not.
I also take issue with those who seem to think Anything non Apple is worthless junk, that's just silly talk that belongs in the playground.
I also believe Apple could make a low cost (lost cost for Apple) Plastic cased laptop, perhaps trim the specs down a little and make is much more affordable to a typical family. I don't know why people cannot grasp that many here are not the typical consumer who is struggling to pay bills, feed the family, run the car etc etc.
It's very insulting to brand such a person, who is working hard to bring up a family "Joe Cheapo"
nagromme
Mar 18, 04:11 PM
I have no problem with people using this, as long as people don't use it for piracy. Easier methods exist for pirating music.
The record labels will have SOME problem with this, but--like CDs--you have to BUY the music first. That's not like people signing up for one month of Napster and stealing non-stop.
Apple will have a bigger problem with this--it was tough enough for them to convince the record industry to allow downloading at all, and they'll be extra sure to defend their system now that it's successful.
And it sounds easy for Apple to fix with a future iTunes update:
1) First, force iTunes to identify itself more strictly when connecting to the store.
2) Assuming that crackers keep finding ways to spoof the iTunes app anyway... send the songs to Akamai and to the iTunes app already encrypted. NOT with the account-specific DRM, just with standard 128-bit encryption, the SAME encryption for everyone. Only iTunes, not 3rd-party apps, would have the key to decrypt those files (and add the individual DRM).
3) If the crackers manage to extract the universal key from the iTunes app, Apple need only change the key every so often to interfere. Either as part of iTunes updates, and/or by obtaining a new key online so there's one more process crackers would have to spoof.
Thinking out loud. Anyway, one way or another, I imagine this is short-lived.
The existing, easy, legal method for stripping DRM--burning to CD--is here to stay. And you lose no quality. When you re-import, you ALSO lose no quality, as long as you can spare the HD space and use Apple Lossless etc. Looking at the long-term, HD space is getting cheap.
The record labels will have SOME problem with this, but--like CDs--you have to BUY the music first. That's not like people signing up for one month of Napster and stealing non-stop.
Apple will have a bigger problem with this--it was tough enough for them to convince the record industry to allow downloading at all, and they'll be extra sure to defend their system now that it's successful.
And it sounds easy for Apple to fix with a future iTunes update:
1) First, force iTunes to identify itself more strictly when connecting to the store.
2) Assuming that crackers keep finding ways to spoof the iTunes app anyway... send the songs to Akamai and to the iTunes app already encrypted. NOT with the account-specific DRM, just with standard 128-bit encryption, the SAME encryption for everyone. Only iTunes, not 3rd-party apps, would have the key to decrypt those files (and add the individual DRM).
3) If the crackers manage to extract the universal key from the iTunes app, Apple need only change the key every so often to interfere. Either as part of iTunes updates, and/or by obtaining a new key online so there's one more process crackers would have to spoof.
Thinking out loud. Anyway, one way or another, I imagine this is short-lived.
The existing, easy, legal method for stripping DRM--burning to CD--is here to stay. And you lose no quality. When you re-import, you ALSO lose no quality, as long as you can spare the HD space and use Apple Lossless etc. Looking at the long-term, HD space is getting cheap.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 29, 02:59 PM
The point is that Greenpeace opposes ALL R&D into GM foods, just as G.W. opposes ALL R&D into stem cell research, including research to use stem cells w/o harming the fetus.
First, R&D should never be banned. However, we should not implement everything we find out in our labs. It is a huge difference in getting to know how we can alter the genetical code and actually do it in a grand scale. THAT if anything will be our end.
Stem cells is an entirely different story. That is a political/religious question about when life begins and also OT.
First, R&D should never be banned. However, we should not implement everything we find out in our labs. It is a huge difference in getting to know how we can alter the genetical code and actually do it in a grand scale. THAT if anything will be our end.
Stem cells is an entirely different story. That is a political/religious question about when life begins and also OT.
malexandria
Apr 15, 11:34 AM
seriously, stop spreading crap like this. You make it plainly obvious that you have never actually used a mac. Or, that you're a 20-something kid who values your precious soul-sucking video games above all else.
I'm sorry if YOU can't see any value in a mac - you aren't looking very hard. Try loading OSX on your pc. Go ahead. I'll wait. Oh, make sure it is full functionality too. I want gestures, I want full printing and network support, everything. You say you have it? Prove it. Give me screen shots, video with audio, etc.
I'm sorry, but I loathe posts like yours. If you are so anti-mac, then good for you. Enjoy your world, but stay the hell out of ours.
As a Mac user, I loathe dumb posts like yours. Telling someone to try and run Mac OsX on a PC is a silly retort. Almost every (current) mainstream PC in the world is capable of running OSX perfectly fine. It's not a PC Makers fault that Apple are controlling Aholes and won't let people do it. The only thing that makes Macs worthwhile (from my view point) is it's ability to run both Windows and OSX on one machine.
Why is this? Because Microsoft ALLOWS it, also many Mac people refuse to admit that it's because of this and bootcamp a few years ago that led to Apple's incredible growth in the last few years. People are now more comfortable with switching because they Can run Windows and still be compatible with their jobs as well.
Again, as a Mac user, I'd absolutely love to be able to run OSX on a PC that I can build, customize anyway I want at a more reasonable price than my recent $1,800 13 Inch Macbook - that I still had to add my own HD to...
I'm sorry if YOU can't see any value in a mac - you aren't looking very hard. Try loading OSX on your pc. Go ahead. I'll wait. Oh, make sure it is full functionality too. I want gestures, I want full printing and network support, everything. You say you have it? Prove it. Give me screen shots, video with audio, etc.
I'm sorry, but I loathe posts like yours. If you are so anti-mac, then good for you. Enjoy your world, but stay the hell out of ours.
As a Mac user, I loathe dumb posts like yours. Telling someone to try and run Mac OsX on a PC is a silly retort. Almost every (current) mainstream PC in the world is capable of running OSX perfectly fine. It's not a PC Makers fault that Apple are controlling Aholes and won't let people do it. The only thing that makes Macs worthwhile (from my view point) is it's ability to run both Windows and OSX on one machine.
Why is this? Because Microsoft ALLOWS it, also many Mac people refuse to admit that it's because of this and bootcamp a few years ago that led to Apple's incredible growth in the last few years. People are now more comfortable with switching because they Can run Windows and still be compatible with their jobs as well.
Again, as a Mac user, I'd absolutely love to be able to run OSX on a PC that I can build, customize anyway I want at a more reasonable price than my recent $1,800 13 Inch Macbook - that I still had to add my own HD to...
dukebound85
Mar 15, 07:18 PM
I did a little reading and now am a one minute expert... :p
I've read these reactors did auto shut down when the earthquake hit. The problem is that the rods create tremendous persistent heat even after a shutdown, and it is the lack of cooling water that is causing the problem.
Yes, lack of cooing is the issue as it uncovers the core
Could it be considered a myth that any nuclear reactor can be expected to automatically safely shutdown when power to all safety systems are lost no matter how it is designed?
Not really. When all power is lost, the plant is still able to cool itself through other means
And who was saying this could not be like Chernobyl??
Chernobyl utilized a design that did not utilize many of the safety systems in place as today's plants, such as having multiple layers of containment for one...
I've read these reactors did auto shut down when the earthquake hit. The problem is that the rods create tremendous persistent heat even after a shutdown, and it is the lack of cooling water that is causing the problem.
Yes, lack of cooing is the issue as it uncovers the core
Could it be considered a myth that any nuclear reactor can be expected to automatically safely shutdown when power to all safety systems are lost no matter how it is designed?
Not really. When all power is lost, the plant is still able to cool itself through other means
And who was saying this could not be like Chernobyl??
Chernobyl utilized a design that did not utilize many of the safety systems in place as today's plants, such as having multiple layers of containment for one...
LagunaSol
Apr 21, 01:34 PM
Your profile name/avatar/signature shows how unbias you are...shame on these crazy Android users who can't see the merit of a different OS :rolleyes:
Of course I'm biased. I'm on an Apple user community forum.
What I would not do is join an Android user forum with a user name like iOS Rules and an avatar of a dead Android robot and spend my days telling all the Android users how much more awesome my platform of choice is and how dumb they are for choosing something else. Not only would that be rude, but it would also likely get me booted from the forum for trolling (something that sadly is not enforced around here).
I have no problem with Android. What I do have a problem with is the deafening amount of noise being made all over the Web by the more vocal segment of the Android population. As far as grassroots astroturfing goes, I've never seen anything like it. It blew the top off the annoyance thermometer about 6 months ago.
Of course I'm biased. I'm on an Apple user community forum.
What I would not do is join an Android user forum with a user name like iOS Rules and an avatar of a dead Android robot and spend my days telling all the Android users how much more awesome my platform of choice is and how dumb they are for choosing something else. Not only would that be rude, but it would also likely get me booted from the forum for trolling (something that sadly is not enforced around here).
I have no problem with Android. What I do have a problem with is the deafening amount of noise being made all over the Web by the more vocal segment of the Android population. As far as grassroots astroturfing goes, I've never seen anything like it. It blew the top off the annoyance thermometer about 6 months ago.
MacPhilosopher
May 5, 11:31 AM
As much as I want to say that it s a grass is always greener type situation, in Phoenix AT&T is considered the worst. Especially indoors. They really must stretch the towers out here in the desert. I can;t even use my iphone in my home.
Rt&Dzine
Mar 27, 06:18 PM
According to the APA there is no sound science behind conversion therapy.
Some quotes from Nicolosi:
?If the father drops the kid and the kid gets brain damage, at least he?ll be straight. Small price to pay.?
?When we live our God-given integrity and our human dignity, there is no space for sex with a guy.?
?I do not believe that any man can ever be truly at peace in living out a homosexual orientation.?
Some quotes from Nicolosi:
?If the father drops the kid and the kid gets brain damage, at least he?ll be straight. Small price to pay.?
?When we live our God-given integrity and our human dignity, there is no space for sex with a guy.?
?I do not believe that any man can ever be truly at peace in living out a homosexual orientation.?
CaoCao
Mar 25, 03:20 PM
Damn right. What are we supposed to say- "Oh, you don't like us and want to deny us rights? Ok, that's just your opinion! Cool!" **** that. Sorry, not gonna happen.
You have to prove the rights existed in the first place otherwise I could argue the government is denying my right to drive a tank
It is entirely relevant. The leadership of the Catholic Church, as one very significant representative of a multitude of peer sects that engage in similar behavior, uses its political and rhetorical power to promote the attitudes that spread their own prejudice and enable prejudiced people, including a subset of extremists, to excuse themselves from the obligation to treat those people with fundamental dignity and respect.
*snip*
Do you even understand how the Roman Catholic Church much less the Catholic Church works?
No argument except as to the point. This would only be a relevant criticism if I were holding Catholics responsible for an attitude held by some Christian sects, but not by Catholics themselves. On the contrary, the Catholic attitude towards homosexuality in question is common across much of Christendom.
This thread is about the Catholic Church, so I name the Catholic Church, but the criticism is properly aimed at the attitude they share ecumenically. The consequences of prejudice against homosexuality as rationalized by Christian dogma are shared among all who promote that prejudice. The Catholic Church is neither singled out (except contextually) nor excused on that account.
As I said, you want to reserve to the church the right to disclaim responsibility for those who act on the principles it promotes.
I doubt you could find a sect who murdered homosexuals for fun. To return to the analogy, the Klan did not murder black people for fun. They murdered those who stepped out of line, who challenged the social status white people of the era carved out for black people.
The mainstream hierarchy of the Catholic Church espouses the belief that homosexuals must be made to conform to Catholic prejudice regarding their proper place in society, and that Catholic belief grants them the right to do so. The premise is wrong before we even get to the method. The mainstream Catholic Church pursues this agenda in ways which do not currently involve terrorist action, but they do pursue it. The obscure terrorist sect you've hypothesized would be operating based on the same flawed premise as the "mainstream" church, arguably even more consistently, since a common interpretation of the Bible does demand the death penalty for homosexuals.
As I keep saying, the immorality lies in the idea that one's prejudice gives one the right to force other people to live their own lives within the boundaries of that prejudice, whatever form that force may take.
This is about the Roman Catholic Church not Christendom. Also the attitude is not shared, many Protestant groups see people as evil and wicked, the Roman Catholic Church sees homosexuals as people in need of love and support.
By mainstream Catholic I mean someone who follows all the rules of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic view does not demand the death of homosexuals, instead it seeks to change the behavior for they are lost sheep.
You have to prove the rights existed in the first place otherwise I could argue the government is denying my right to drive a tank
It is entirely relevant. The leadership of the Catholic Church, as one very significant representative of a multitude of peer sects that engage in similar behavior, uses its political and rhetorical power to promote the attitudes that spread their own prejudice and enable prejudiced people, including a subset of extremists, to excuse themselves from the obligation to treat those people with fundamental dignity and respect.
*snip*
Do you even understand how the Roman Catholic Church much less the Catholic Church works?
No argument except as to the point. This would only be a relevant criticism if I were holding Catholics responsible for an attitude held by some Christian sects, but not by Catholics themselves. On the contrary, the Catholic attitude towards homosexuality in question is common across much of Christendom.
This thread is about the Catholic Church, so I name the Catholic Church, but the criticism is properly aimed at the attitude they share ecumenically. The consequences of prejudice against homosexuality as rationalized by Christian dogma are shared among all who promote that prejudice. The Catholic Church is neither singled out (except contextually) nor excused on that account.
As I said, you want to reserve to the church the right to disclaim responsibility for those who act on the principles it promotes.
I doubt you could find a sect who murdered homosexuals for fun. To return to the analogy, the Klan did not murder black people for fun. They murdered those who stepped out of line, who challenged the social status white people of the era carved out for black people.
The mainstream hierarchy of the Catholic Church espouses the belief that homosexuals must be made to conform to Catholic prejudice regarding their proper place in society, and that Catholic belief grants them the right to do so. The premise is wrong before we even get to the method. The mainstream Catholic Church pursues this agenda in ways which do not currently involve terrorist action, but they do pursue it. The obscure terrorist sect you've hypothesized would be operating based on the same flawed premise as the "mainstream" church, arguably even more consistently, since a common interpretation of the Bible does demand the death penalty for homosexuals.
As I keep saying, the immorality lies in the idea that one's prejudice gives one the right to force other people to live their own lives within the boundaries of that prejudice, whatever form that force may take.
This is about the Roman Catholic Church not Christendom. Also the attitude is not shared, many Protestant groups see people as evil and wicked, the Roman Catholic Church sees homosexuals as people in need of love and support.
By mainstream Catholic I mean someone who follows all the rules of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic view does not demand the death of homosexuals, instead it seeks to change the behavior for they are lost sheep.
No comments:
Post a Comment